With Laravel 5 I believe Taylor was looking to swap to semantic versioning.

You say regular changes break things in your app, but is this not what composer is for? To manage and lock your dependencies to certain versions. One thing that often annoys me with software is that people try to make everything backwards compatible, but when trying to support backwards compatibility you lose the ability to bring in new features/techniques, I would rather new updates break things and I have to lock my dependencies to an older version of laravel/framework or update my own code, rather than miss out on features.

Github issues are not for coding problems, but for issues/bug in the framework that need to be addressed. For coding issues there is stack overflow, laravel.io, the sub-reddit and countless other sites out there.

Composer...I think what OP meant by breaking changes is the notation of versioning of 0.0.x is not supposed to have breaking changes instead of only bug fixes. There should not be any code fail to work after upgrading what it normally refers to small patches like that.

It is completely okay to not support backwards compatibility in x.0.0 version but not in 0.0.x one.

But I do agree Github is not for questions like how to code... They are many more suitable places to go.

iWader said:

With Laravel 5 I believe Taylor was looking to swap to semantic versioning.

You say regular changes break things in your app, but is this not what composer is for? To manage and lock your dependencies to certain versions. One thing that often annoys me with software is that people try to make everything backwards compatible, but when trying to support backwards compatibility you lose the ability to bring in new features/techniques, I would rather new updates break things and I have to lock my dependencies to an older version of laravel/framework or update my own code, rather than miss out on features.

Github issues are not for coding problems, but for issues/bug in the framework that need to be addressed. For coding issues there is stack overflow, laravel.io, the sub-reddit and countless other sites out there.

Laravel is not a community base, it is a one man product.

Yes Taylor manages Laravel mainly by himself. In time there will be perhaps more maintainers (like Graham who is managing issues etc.). But he apparently likes to keep in strict control for now.

Even when someone make pull-request Taylor make copy and paste it instead of merge it. I'm pretty sure that only has been the case a few times, but that is probably because it's just faster to do (merge conflicts, wrong coding style, tweaks etc). So instead of going back/forth, he just does it himself. People should probably be grateful that he fixes your problem for free.

Version problems. Laravel not going with Semantic versions. When regular frameworks not big changes between 1.2.4 and 1.2.5, Laravel can completely remove some library or method. When it happens your code maybe will not working tomorrow. This is why Python 2 and Python 3 continuously developing at the same time.

Laravel switched to SemVer for L5. That is why it's Laravel 5.0 and not 4.3. But the project is relatively new and the increase in popularity is huge! Version 3 -> version 4 was a big change (with Composer etc) and as the project becomes more popular, needs change. It was never said that Laravel had a LTS release, but you can still use 4.x for the time being. Hopefully the changes will stable out soon, and 5.x will have a longer run. For comparison, check http://www.google.nl/trends/explore#q=laravel%2C%20symfony%2C%20zend%20framework&cmpt=q In early 2013 (when 4.0 was developed) it was a lot less popular then Symfony/Zend, but now it's growing like crazy.

Bullshit when creating standarts. Taylor takes the interface and call that as a Contracts. When you want to use something from composer, you should write Contract for this package. If you dont want it so why you use Laravel?

I don't understand your point here. You don't like that interfaces are called contracts? The contracts are added as a seperate package to make it easier for other packages/libraries to add support for Laravel, or re-use those interfaces/contracts without requiring the same package. This is kind of similar to PSR interfaces.

Also why i use unfriendly for IDE "make" method instead of $object = new Object();

Those are not the same at all. If you neede to ask this, learn about what the IoC Container does: http://laravel.com/docs/4.2/ioc You don't always need to use App::make, you can typehint the dependancies on the constructor (and in L5 in controller methods etc) and it will be resolved for you. The container also takes care of additional dependencies, correct implementation for interfaces and shared instances.

Losing the originality. Making project is like playing with LEGO. Laravel start with like a LEGO but because of Laravel working system turning something else.

I really don't know what you mean here? You don't like Composer packages? Laravel leverages open source packages so it doesn't have to redo it himself. And a lot of functionality it just as well in community package, instead of putting everything in the core.

Support,support,support. Zend Framework 1 is written in 2007 and it is up to date today. But your codes which is written in 2007 today still works! And also Zend Framework 2 is published but version 1 still developing. But in laravel you can't find even documantation for old versions in official site.

All the docs are still up on Github. Laravel 1/2 are probably only used internally, but 3 is here: https://github.com/laravel/laravel/tree/3.0/bundles/docs and the 4.x releases all still have branches here: https://github.com/laravel/docs And see the SemVer comment.

Thanks all of you for taking time and answer this. Again this is a blog post not my idea, i am just curious what do you think :) Let me explain not understand area;

barryvdh said:

Losing the originality. Making project is like playing with LEGO. Laravel start with like a LEGO but because of Laravel working system turning something else.

I really don't know what you mean here? You don't like Composer packages? Laravel leverages open source packages so it doesn't have to redo it himself. And a lot of functionality it just as well in community package, instead of putting everything in the core.

This part of post, author try to say that composer is a brilliant! But if you want to use any package in your laravel project, you must do extra things for package. For example all composer packages has interface or provider but for use in laravel you should write contracts for it. (my idea: I dont know its really necessary or not) So composer like a LEGO and what you do with lego is up to your imagination. But laravel is a Castle LEGO. it is not up to you, you should do castle... you only can do castle with that, that toy dictate that to you.

I either don't understand what the author means, or the author doesn't understand how Laravel/Composer works.

You can just use any Composer package in Laravel. No need for extra files. It's autoloaded etc, so don't see the problem. Laravel just makes it easier by adding ServiceProviders/facades as an extra possibility. You don't need to do this at all, but it can be handy to have the package setup by a ServiceProvider, or access it with a Facade. And many packages already have these Laravel wrappers available. But again, you don't need them!

@barryvdh thank you very much for answers. Yes you're right the author misunderstand laravel-composer works. Maybe wrong write or can't explain exactly but he writes you need extra things. But i understand that we dont have to write extra things.

I would like to add a non-technical opinion from a non- full time developer. I mainly work as a Project Manger but I have been a non-full time PHP developer for over 15 years. I have used L4 in several projects; one of my L4 apps has sold more than 1 million dollars in products within the first 3 months.

For me L4 represent basically 3 things: simplicity, power and standardization. I am very happy with L4,I think is an amazing framework and to be honest, this is the first PHP framework I use as developer. When looking at the future, I think L5 has nice improvements; however, I think overall is going to scare some people, especially the new ones. One of the things I like about L4 is how easy and fast you can create an app. However, with the new L5 folder structure (template folder instead of view, view folder outside of the app folder, no model folder), middleware, , etc will make the framework a bit less attractive and perhaps, loose a bit the great momentum that L4 has.

Personally, I am exploring other frameworks such as Phalcon PHP and CI3...

Not like that. Its like a similar post i found here. They have explain about why laravel is the best php framework. For now a days laravel is the best php framework. "Among st the many frameworks, Laravel is the most famous as it helps to develop a website using a simple and a clean code in a short time. This web application framework has elegant and expressive syntax. Tasks in the web projects such as authentication, routing, sessions, queuing and catching are made easier." https://blogs.agriya.com/2015/05/28/why-laravel-is-the-best-php-framework/

I can't help myself, just have to jump in here. Someone mentioned new features. Well I don't like new preppie fadish features that seem to come up all the time in software in general. I like a good sound software that doesn't change every 2 months. Take javabeans, servlets, and jsp, I could write code using those three exactly like I did 10 years ago. Even php and pdo stay pretty stable. It's not the core languages that change so much as someone mentioned the frameworks change too often. If someone goes from ver 4 to ver 5, fine, but they should still support the previous ver for at least several more years.
Minor change is one thing, but big changes make it hard to keep a site updated. When you are finally up to date watch out yet another version is out. It has gotton out of hand.
The reason I don't like zend is it shouldn't take 2.7 million lines of code to query a database and display a record.

coderontheroad said:

Hello everyone,

These days in "Laravel Türkiye" (facebook group for turkish developer who use laravel) we discuss this blog post: "Why i am not using Laravel?". Discussion link(it is in turkish language): https://www.facebook.com/groups/laravelturkiye/permalink/487317271407656/

Author of this post (http://aligundogdu.com/neden-laravel-kullanmiyorum/) Ali Gündoğdu is a founder of software company and also backend developer in Turkey. In blog post he is trying to explain why he is not want to use Laravel. I want to summarize it and ask something. Lets start;

He is saying that, when i choosing tools for projects (languages, technologies etc.) i am looking this features;

• That tool speed up me?
• When tool release new version, how is tool support for old versions?
• When i experience a new error, can i find solution with Google?
• Who is develop this tool ? A one person or community base or arbitrary person etc.

And he is saying that i am not giving info about "Which development language is best?" or "Which framework is best?". Instead of for speed solution i am looking that "Which is best for this situation/problem/project?". After this ideas he is put main content why not use laravel;

• Laravel is not a community base, it is a one man product. I am not saying that, Taylor saying this: https://twitter.com/taylorotwell/status/420577120188768257
• "We are family but i give the decision." Taylor behavior like this. And Ali says this is bad things and giving examples why this is bad (ubuntu,pardus etc.). Even when someone make pull-request Taylor make copy and paste it instead of merge it.
• Version problems. Laravel not going with Semantic versions. When regular frameworks not big changes between 1.2.4 and 1.2.5, Laravel can completely remove some library or method. When it happens your code maybe will not working tomorrow. This is why Python 2 and Python 3 continuously developing at the same time.
• Hard to find solution when occurs problem. Taylor deletes the issues on Github and want to ask problems on forum. This is block finding solutions. Another problem when i searching problem also i should search this solution is for which version?
• Bullshit when creating standarts. Taylor takes the interface and call that as a Contracts. When you want to use something from composer, you should write Contract for this package. If you dont want it so why you use Laravel? Also why i use unfriendly for IDE "make" method instead of $object = new Object();
• Losing the originality. Making project is like playing with LEGO. Laravel start with like a LEGO but because of Laravel working system turning something else. For example, when you want to use composer packages its like this: http://aligundogdu.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/6177_lego_builders_of_tomorrow_box.jpg but when laravel comes your project it is turning this: http://aligundogdu.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/12/lego-castle-70404-kings-castle-box.png
• Support,support,support. Zend Framework 1 is written in 2007 and it is up to date today. But your codes which is written in 2007 today still works! And also Zend Framework 2 is published but version 1 still developing. But in laravel you can't find even documantation for old versions in official site.

So, i want to ask Laravel community what do you think about this ideas? Why Taylor behavior like this? Is he any explanation about this?

I made couple of optimzations but Taylor rejected the pull request because, and i will quote him "Optimization is tiny so it's not worth pulling it". Read the source code of laravel and see it's full of crap-ola.