Oh when you say beginners you really mean beginners. Laravel is not CMS it is PHP framework. To know how to use Laravel you need to be advanced in php web development. I suggest you to first learn fundamentals of web development, PHP, object oriented programming, SQL databases and more. Then bring your knowledge of all of that on advanced level, and THEN you are ready to use some PHP framework. Otherwise stick with some CMS like Drupal, there you can just click on buttons the make things done, you don't have to code ( if you do not want to make modules ).

Of all modern PHP frameworks, Laravel is the easiest to get up and running. Good luck.

Black-Room-Boy said:

Oh when you say beginners you really mean beginners.

No i mean Laravel-beginners, not PHP beginners!

To know how to use Laravel you need to be advanced in php web development. I suggest you to first learn fundamentals of web development, PHP, object oriented programming, SQL databases and more. Then bring your knowledge of all of that on advanced level, and THEN you are ready to use some PHP framework.

I'm no PHP newbie, i code since 15 years in PHP.

Of all modern PHP frameworks, Laravel is the easiest to get up and running

You ignore all facts that i've written above. Maybe it's easy to develop sites with Laravel but the whole "surrounding" isn't easy at all (and the docs lacks of informations - otherwise nobody would have problems with installing etc).

I am a beginner with Laravel, and have found it to be great. As mentioned above you really should know at least the fundamentals of programming with PHP and SQL, and be comfortable in the command line.

I am comfortable with the above, but it's still a new learning experience for me using Vagrant, Composer and getting to know the MVC way. I am Having fun with it though, and I am yet to run into any issues with install etc.

The documentation does actually suggest and link to using virtual box and Vagrant to set up virtual environments, which is real great for keeping a clean work space.

Head on over to https://laracasts.com. This has free series on beginning Laravel.

1. The installation process is a pain and doesn't work for most users on the first try

I had mixed experiences depending on what I did and what platform I was on. At home I have a modern Mac, following the official documentation and using Homestead was super easy and worked immediately. If you have a semi-modern computer, it couldn't be easier : just follow the steps and it works.

At work, I'm on a very old Linux machine. I tried Homestead, but no luck : the CPU wasn't compatible with virtual machines, and that was not in the documentation. I guess a beginner would have been really pissed. I simplified the problem by installing a LAMP stack myself. If you have 15 years of PHP experience you can do it!

2. You can't download a working Laravel package, you always have to use Composer to "finalize" it

You coud download all the files in one big zipped archive, but then you're stuck with the verison you have and no way of updating it easily. Composer takes care of that. Why is it a problem for you? It's not very hard to do really.

3. I don't know what/if Laravel overwrites if i run an update

It only touches vendor packages so your code is safe. It may break old code, but nobody forces you to update.

4. It has no real autoloading, every time you change something you have to run "Composer autoload update"

It's true, I don't like it either mainly because I tend to forget to do it and it's annoying. I don't know if a solution is possible there?

5. I can't code a forum (like vBulletin) with Laravel and provide it for the public - it will possibly not run on their systems

You totally can! As I said, if you want to provide a packaged solution for you end users without them having to use Composer, just zip everything and voilà!

6. After "composer install" the whole Laravel directory has 4000 files!!!!

Yeah, that's true. Is it a problem? You don't have to touch them.

Carenza said:

1. The installation process is a pain and doesn't work for most users on the first try

+1

2. You can't download a working Laravel package, you always have to use Composer to "finalize" it

Yep! I also don't understand why it's so hard to put a zip-file online which has Laravel + the latest composer-packages-stuff inside which you can just unzip, upload and the "hello" is there?!

5. I can't code a forum (like vBulletin) with Laravel and provide it for the public - it will possibly not run on their systems

Your customers always need a running Laravel system .... and even then it's unsure if your scripts will run there or not.

6. After "composer install" the whole Laravel directory has 4000 files!!!!

I'm not sure but perhaps there is a way to install with a "minimum" parameter? But even then i expect hundreds of file :-(

vanpet said: 5) I can't code a forum (like vBulletin) with Laravel and provide it for the public - it will possibly not run on their systems

You totally can! As I said, if you want to provide a packaged solution for you end users without them having to use Composer, just zip everything and voilà!

Ok let's say i've downloaded the "Twig"-package. There aren't any install hints inside the zip. Nothing. I'm lost and i don't know where to copy all those files.

Also when i develop a small laravel-based site (with cms) for a customer, he needs a (pricier) server with root access and not just one of those "webpacks" with php & mysql.

So there are 2 points here: Composer reliance/composer packages/lots of files, and server demands. I'll try to answer these and keep this post here for future reference.

Composer gives much more benefit than the very minor learning curve it costs. For most of your composer-ing career you'll be running like 5 commands with it. If you're new to the command line, yes, you'll need to learn to use it.

Having a dependency manager means laravel can easily grow and handle complex subsystems while also making it easy to update. Without composer, you'd have to download those several thousand files in one go, including those you don't need, and manage the autoloading/updating of third party libraries. This is non-trivial. Patching an obscure bug in some laravel dependency would be an absolute nightmare if you had to download a whole new huge install folder every time.

Why are these so many files? Because everything's modular, documented, and usually come with tests. This is good - you can verify the integrity of each package and swap components in and out. Files are cheap. Very cheap.

Composer also handles autoloading because it's already there, and it lets laravel use packages not meant for laravel (just vanilla composer packages).

As for server requirements, first things first: you can run laravel just fine on most decent hosts these days. The requirements are very low.

It does have some dependencies (e.g. SSH access*) and there's a very simple reason for this: Laravel is a PHP framework. It's meant to help you build big applications, so it has to either cater for the lowest denominator (and sacrifice everyone else) or provide the best foundation for a more intermediate level of users. It chose the latter, but "intermediate" itself is a stretch. If you were to make a framework that should run "almost anywhere" then you'll be shoehorned into PHP 4 with 128mb RAM.

You do not need root access to use Laravel.

* this isn't even a real requirement, but you should have it to save your sanity.

I do agree that laravel has a learning curve. I'm suggesting that there are reasons for this curve, and I'm sure you'll find the benefits of a dependency manager very, very soon after getting used to it.

2. You can't download a working Laravel package, you always have to use Composer to "finalize" it

This isn't a bad thing, this is actually good. You could just package everything before.

3. I don't know what/if Laravel overwrites if i run an update

Only stuff under /vendor

5. I can't code a forum (like vBulletin) with Laravel and provide it for the public - it will possibly not run on their systems

As said above, yes! Pre-package a working install, and your done.

Also when i develop a small laravel-based site (with cms) for a customer, he needs a (pricier) server with root access and not just one of those "webpacks" with php & mysql.

forge.laravel.com digitalocean.com linode.com

DigitalOcean alone is only 5$/month for the basic package, I don't see how cheaper it can get.

The Laravel docs sometimes have some crippling omissions. It is a framework, not a CMS, so programming knowledge is not optional. The principle of Composer is something PHP has needed for a long time, but it relies on the command-line (not necessarily root access), and that's a problem for some users.

Personally, working with Laravel switches between runs at 100mph when things are humming along (sweet!), and suddenly I'm stopped dead when something goes horrifyingly wrong and I'm stuck for hours.

On a personal note, a cms like drupal and wordpress is like pressing buttons and childs play. I prefer to actually know every line of code and explain it that way I actually am learning a skill that I can take anywhere anytime and build my own applications.

I started with Codeigniter for my first MVC which was great. Laravel is an awesome framework for building any applicaton. I also want to stress that it is not necessarily the framework that is important but the programmer behind the code.

If you know php for 15 years then you should be able to build your own OOP framework. Also, not every project needs a framework all the time. Again, if you can code OOP php then do it and know every line of code.

Although a framework does prevent a lot of the re-inventing the wheel stuff.

It's a shame this forum doesn't have a like button on posts because there is a lot to like in this thread.

I am new to laravel having not touched a byte of php for about three years. Yes there is a bit to learn but you will be much better developer for it. Pop on over to laracasts.com and invest $9/mo in your future earning potential.

You will be writing much better code than mushed up proceedural code.

I am a Laravel beginner AND arguably a PHP beginner (though I've learned a lot building my app in vanilla PHP before porting to Laravel, as well as working with PHP a bit a few years ago). I thought the installation process was actually surprisingly easy (Homestead setup took maybe 45 mins). Laravel is the first PHP framework I've used and I've been pleasantly surprised. Whenever I do run into problems there is usually relevant documentation to turn to as well as existing community and StackOverflow content that help find the answers.

One thing I haven't done yet is actually deploy my app for public consumption, so can't comment on that experience.

Documentation is not really Laravels strong side, there are a ton features that is possible to find only in API or some blogs like culttt or scotch.io. Most of documentation in laravel site are just list of functions with some rare explanations. There are no code examples at all.

Good thing is that you can subscribe to laracasts, Jeffrey Way is god of explaining complicated things in simple way. And subcribation price is just unfair to him.

Carenza said:

4. It has no real autoloading, every time you change something you have to run "Composer autoload update"

Try using PSR-0 or PSR-4. Works great for me, no autoloading required.

damienadermann said:

Carenza said:

4. It has no real autoloading, every time you change something you have to run "Composer autoload update"

Try using PSR-0 or PSR-4. Works great for me, no autoloading required.

Could you explain me what PSR-0 and PSR-4 means? Would be very nice!

^ google it dude , anyway

http://www.php-fig.org/ // its basically a community of members that create PHP standards that make working with different projects easier and interoperable.

• PSR-0 Aims to provide a standard file, class and namespace convention to allow plug-and-play code.
• PSR-1 Aims to ensure a high level of technical interoperability between shared PHP code. PSR-2 Provides a Coding Style Guide for projects looking to standardize their code.
• PSR-3 Describes a common interface for logging libraries.
• PSR-4 A more modern take on autoloading reflecting advances in the ecosystem.

Just trying to see the "You are Here" window but can't

Once I navigate to the Laravel Public folder from Browser, the browser went blank and error is, "No Data received". Any one could please tell me what is the problem ?

I'm new to laravel, but not php. Been coding 10+ yrs including jsp/servlets. I like simplemvc framework, it has a database wrapper thats pure pdo (like right out of the php manual). That said, I like laravel also. My problem is I like coding the basic, grass roots, by the manual way. Example laravel uses $name = Input::get('name'); To me whats wrong with $name = $_POST['name']; Of course I'd santize it. So I'm getting used of using helpers. Some are good. Here's where the problem comes in: People use a framework before learning to code by the book! Ok they use and trust those helpers, but do they actually read and study exactly whats happening in the background? Usually no. I feel that anyone should learn basic php/pdo usage prior to using a framework. I wish it was a LAW. This includes security, validation, etc. But no laravel isn't too complicated for beginners. So far the only issue I have is the routing. I like regular routing. For example:

Route::get('pets', array('uses' => 'PetsController@petlist'));
Route::get('verb for uri', array('uses' => 'controller to use@controller method to use'));

Seems that some people are putting tens of thousands of functions in the routes. Why even bother with controllers??? Sorry had to make this point. To me a router should route to controller/method. Bottom line, I like laravel/helpers/etc, but only because I learned regular php/pdo coding first.

I can't agree with anything you say. I'm working on a package atm that is actually a download-and-install affair (rather than via composer, though that option is available also).

This is simply a demonstration of your lack of knowledge of the system (aka, ignorance).

@jimgwhit - such an angle is fallacious. Do you learn how your operating system manages network packets to connect your webserver with the various clients that might connect? Probably not. Why? Because you don't need to.

Learning how to use Eloquent removes an element of knowledge that may be required otherwise, and saves you from basic mistakes that many of us made growing up in PHP - such as superglobals, sql injection attacks and more.

People will learn the language as they get better, that's part and parcel. They shouldn't have to be an expert to use a framework. That is elitism.

Well kirkbushell you are the ignorant one. Even a doctor has to learn the basics first then intern. I guess your way of thinking is "kids don't need the basics in school, just skip those years and go right to a computer and work". No ignorant man, in any job, endeavor, or anything one should learn the basics first. And I bet when you see a doctor you feel good knowing he or she went through years of training (learning the BASICS first). OR, NO I BET YOU SEE A QUACK DOCTOR WITH LITTLE OR NO TRAINING with your way of thinking.

Furthermore I was the database manager for a major trucking company for many years, and I setup the network, maintained it, programmed our database, and everything, and I did want to know how everything worked.

Would you want to fly on a plane where a mechanic rebuilt the engine, but had very little knowledge of it or get on the plane where the mechanic has gone through years of book and hands on training?????????? Duh!.. You said: Do you learn how your operating system manages network packets... Well the programmers at microsoft have to know this, which is my point. If you are programming php for a living, why heck it would be nice to know php.. Do me a favor, the next time your car needs a brake job do not go to a certified mechanic who had to learn basics first, no really, find someone who is just starting out and only knows that brakes stop the car.

I find Laravel 4 easy to learn and use. Now that i use Laravel 4 i would never go back to just PHP. However, Laravel 5 seems to be more complicated for me. I know and understand that that is the way to go, but i think some people will find Laravel 5 difficult to learn and might scare some people...including myself. ha.

Carenza said:

Some things i really don't like on Laravel:

1. The installation process is a pain and doesn't work for most users on the first try

Laravel has the most simple installation process than any other framework. Especially with artisan serve and homestead.

I run laravel on wamp and worked the very first time I tried.

2. You can't download a working Laravel package, you always have to use Composer to "finalize" it

And it is good. Laravel uses many third party dependencies such as symphony components. Assume the symphony has a security issue and had a fix over night. A simple composer update will save your day.

Guess what? Now every other frameworks such as yii, Zend framework are using composer.

3. I don't know what/if Laravel overwrites if i run an update

Never. Rule of thumb "don't touch vendor directory" and composer won't touch your app directory. As simple as that.

4. It has no real autoloading, every time you change something you have to run "Composer autoload update"

Laravel 5 uses latest psr-4 autoloading standards. I don't actually need to do composer dump autoload frequently of we work on default directory structure. (Newbies please don't worry about this)

5. I can't code a forum (like vBulletin) with Laravel and provide it for the public - it will possibly not run on their systems

It is possible. Laravel needs PHP >= 5.4 and MCrypt PHP Extension. It will work on any decent server without any extra effort.

6. After "composer install" the whole Laravel directory has 4000 files!!!!

Not an issue actually.

Carenza said:

2. You can't download a working Laravel package, you always have to use Composer to "finalize" it

But you can! Good luck finding one which the extra parts added the way you want them added, or maybe you want to use L5 but the only starter you can find was good, but abandoned since L4.0?

3. I don't know what/if Laravel overwrites if i run an update

You can use the stable releases to not have that problem (have fun figuring out that one for the first time).

4. It has no real autoloading, every time you change something you have to run "Composer autoload update"

You're kind of right. I think composer's definition of autoloading is more like it does all the require class_A.php for you, not that it watches for changes and automatically rebuilds.

5. I can't code a forum (like vBulletin) with Laravel and provide it for the public - it will possibly not run on their systems

Shared hosts aren't well known for features like php 4+ and shell access, so yeah, users expecting to run a forum without a VPS have probably never ran a successful forum anyways.

Your thoughts?

Have you ever watched a person with a Masters degree in Computer Science attempt to install Laravel on a fresh linux installation? It is absolutely pathetic. If someone isn't already a hardened webdev, it could take days to progressively figure out php composer.phar => composer, installing php mcrypt, Mysql create db+user+flushpriviledges, nginx/mod rewrite. There are tutorials written for 3.x, 4.0,4.1,4.2, 4.3, 5.0 that are labeled simply as "Laravel tutorial" yet are completely incompatible, even tutorials written during early unstable are incompatible with the stable release they were suppose to be a tutorial for! Laravel seems to be a great product or whatever but the documentation available is sort of a shitstorm.

That being said, it's apparently better than the other frameworks.

I think its difficult for begginer of php.i know its not cms.but i cant even install laravel forum package.there should be option available without composer

The bottom line is that you can code well or badly with a framework. A framework will not detect bad patterns or bad engineering but will suggest the best route forward and take some of the donkey work away from you.

I agree to get the most out of Laravel learn the basics of OOP/MVC and keep pushing yourself to learn more.

I have used other PHP frameworks such Symfony 1 and 2 and think Laravel (especially v5) is starting to compete with them at their level but having the reduced learning curve.

If you get really stuck the Laracasts vids are a good option to start with and see where that takes you

Well my two cents:

I looked at symfony2 and cakephp, I was not able to get symfony2 running. My php skill level: last time I used it was back with php3 and 4. Last Framework used: codeigniter (also many moons ago).

I do have experience with Perl Dancer, Python Django, Ruby on Rails and a little Grails and I find laravel straight forward and easy to get into.

Like some others stated here you should be comfortable with a command line, have at least some experience with modern webframeworks and know a little php.

More important you should know your operating systems and how to install a current version of php5 cli. All the other things are explained well.

I am looking forward to finish my first laravel projekt, so far it has been an absolut pleasure working with it.

Laravel does come with a learning curve that causes many new comers to hit the wall hard. Those who can just jump right in and realize that the learning curve is in all reality relatively simple probably come from back grounds that have had experienced a similar framework, have had exposure to design patterns and/or possibly have come to laravel with solid experience that isn't just tinkering with a blog/cms that has grown into a framework of some sorts.

So, if you are one of those who picked up Laravel with relative ease, awesome! I'm jealous! However, could you also remember that there are lots of us out there who haven't had the same exposure and experiences therefore laravel seems like ruby/python to us and that we are trying to pick up on all these new concepts and that it can be really mind boggling especially when a majority of tutorials just drop all their demo code into the routes file!

jimgwhit - despite your passive aggressive response, your analogies are not accurate. I'm talking about programmers and their underlying tools and systems. Comparing this as somehow relevant or analogous to a doctor whom actually needs to know such topics is a red herring.

Your choice of what you want to learn is entirely up to you, and in some cases you'e all the better for it.

There's no point in people learning how to solve problems that are already solved. Are you going to constantly build wheels just so you can drive a car? Of course not. Such an approach is a massive time waster.

Your example of using $_POST actually shows that you're unaware of the kinds of problems such approaches create. The fact that you're actually willing to constantly have to sanitise your own code (rather than leaving it up to a framework which is thoroughly tested and used), demonstrates that by its very nature your code is probably buggier than a "newb" who is keen to work with the framework.

So now you are bad mouthing the fine folks who maintain php! So it is wrong to use functions like strip_tags, htmlentities which is in the php manual? And I use filter_input on more sensitive data, but not a quick test database where I'm just testing laravel. Some people use a framework, but decide what features to use and what features they want to maintain control over. And just what sanitising does laravel do, has it occured to you that I am new to laravel and hadn't even got that far yet. Has it occured to you that you have to understand the routing, controllers, etc first?
You said "There's no point in people learning how to solve problems that are already solved. Are you going to constantly build wheels just so you can drive a car? Of course not. Such an approach is a massive time waster".
So you are also bad mouthing the fine folks who programmed laravel. Since there are already frameworks you are saying why are they doing another one (The already solved thing). So basically let's just use existing stuff but let no one come up with something new. Is that really the way you think?

With your attitude you probably w-- t-- b-- til you were 14.

@jimgwhit I also have to disagree about the statement that you should learn pure PHP first before you use a framework. I mean did you have to learn how an combustion engine, transmission and all the other technical stuff in a car works when you got your driverslicense? No you learned to drive the car and most likely only one car and not all of them.

On the other hand you are right about that one should at least have an idea what a webapplication is all about. How and what risks exist and have a basic understanding what the framework does to prevent them and what extra mile he has to go to make it more secure and not go around some of the frameworks internal security by accident.

All of that though is a learning experience. You have 10+ years experience developing applications, and I bet when you started you did not know anything about it, but still wrote an application, which most likely had all kinds of holes (like my first applications did). Wouldn't it have been nice to have a framework back then which prevented you from making those mistakes? Yes of course you can argue than you would not have learned all you know now, but I think if someone is really interested in learning the ins and outs of a webapplication they will dig into the framework of choice and learn from that, which depending on the framework can be a good or a bad thing ;)

jimgwhit - I'm not bad-mouthing, I'm openly criticising some aspects of PHP that are fundamentally flawed. If you think that is a bad thing to do then I'm afraid we'll just have to agree to disagree. Critique is what makes us improve. There's a reason why superglobals are deprecated in PHP. Might want to read into that.

I don't even understand your point about badmouthing Laravel. I've been a strong advocate, supporter, community contributor and speaker on the subject for 2 years.

MVC frameworks all have various flavours - Laravel just seems to do that the best (imho). The MVC problem will never be truly solved, so it's open to interpretation and different implementations.

At this point I'm going to end the discussion with you. Your attitude and aggressive responses are incredibly rude. At this point I think it's just better to ignore you, which is what I'll be doing. Hopefully your arrogance will subside in future.

kirkbushell I don't mean to be arrogant, I think you forgot I was just learning this framework. And
pwfraley I do agree that a framework with good tools is nice. But both of you are forgetting one thing.
Most government entities have strict guidelines on the way programming is done. For example the State of Texas will dictate how servlets have to be written in java. All I was trying to say is if you are going to be a php programmer it's good to know the php as in the manual. I never said you have to use it that way all the time. But even in a framework with helpers, all gets done using regular php anyway. Helpers just make it easier on an end user. Nothing wrong with that. But you may one day apply for a job with a city, county, or state, and they don't just let you choose a framework, as mentioned they will have strict specs as how it's done. And if you don't believe me that's fine, lookup some of the specs for yourself. I like laravel and want to continue using it.

I'm not a PHP newbie neither and I agree with Carenza. Mainstream php frameworks are making php coding complicated :( My homemade 20 files mvc framework is sufficient to do what Laravel does, safely, with no fear of the next release upheaval...

Rasmus Lerdorf : PHP Frameworks all suck ! https://youtu.be/DuB6UjEsY_Y

Have you ever watched a person with a Masters degree in Computer Science attempt to install Laravel on a fresh linux installation? It is absolutely pathetic. If someone isn't already a hardened webdev, it could take days to progressively figure out...... etc etc

Yep.

I'm a programmer of 20 years everything from low level c driver code to html and php yet when looking into using laravel I've had days of pain and I still don't have anything working. the various "from scratch" tutorials assume specific php / apache setups or that you know what composer is, or that half the things they go on about would be in your normal vocab. Sadly it seems laravel is actually for those who have worked with laravel for years. I'm coming as someone who has a php driven website running on apache who wanted to tray rebuilding in a framework to make expanding it easier for our team. I spent a couple of days going through the docs and videos, I then tried to step through a few of the install guides and I now have many ways of filling the screen with errors and no clue where to start fixing since it's such a mess.

Someone please take a machine, clean install of linux / osx / windows and from there record the steps you take to get a basic working install where a webpage can be viewed.

Laravel looks great from what people show of it, what is not shown is when it doesn't work, I'd imagine there are a hell of a lot out there like me, we simply don't have the time to spend weeks working out how to get things running.

The first time I installed laravel it took me just over 20 minutes on a fresh centos box. I just followed the directions to the letter, from the beginning, starting with the prerequisites (php >5.6, install composer, etc) I was blown away at how easy it was. It took me a couple of weeks to learn the laravel way of doing things. Then again I've been a php developer since version 3.

As far as beginners go, laravel helps avoid a lot of pitfalls a new developer would fall into such as sql injection, form spoofing, etc

I don't recommend any brand new developer jumping straight into pure php. There's way too much rope to hang yourself with. If not laravel use some other framework. I'm a code security expert (pen testing and remediation) and laravel is really good at keeping you out of trouble. It also also saves a metric ton of work on a project.

I am learning laravel from last 2 weeks.

I worked on ionic framework before and trying to develop similar app in laravel

Too many things to learn....e.g. vagrant, composer, homestead etc then understand MVC

With the help of https://laracasts.com/ ... end up building.... https://github.com/asimkh/apps/tree/hazzir

http://laravel.io/forum/07-19-2016-how-to-install-laravel-52-on-centos-7-or-whatever-for-beginners-with-no-stone-left-unturned

As someone who tried to jump into Laravel after 6 months of html, css and php, I will say that this should be an absolute minimum of what your understanding is before jumping into Laravel.

A buddy said to learn Laravel so I could help him with the large projects he works on. So I tried to install Laravel on my Windows 7 desktop. Then my Windows 8 laptop. Then days go by of me trying google, Laracasts.com and YouTube. So I do a fresh wipe of my laptop and Try to install Laravel on Linux Mint 17. CHEESE AND RICE (Jesus Christ) that was such a pain! But eventually, after a couple weeks I was able to see the home screen.

Ok, so now what? How do I need to know what to learn next? Oh, Laracasts has a course for beginners but it's 4.x. Nah, I'll try to jump right into 5.1 Ok, so I kind of understand composer, this shouldn't be too difficult. Ok, composer did it's job? Excellent. Now what? php artisan? What does that mean? Why do I have to type composer xy for one thing to happen and php artisan xy: xy for something else to happen? I thought this was supposed to be a framework, and my understanding of frameworks is they are supposed to help. But I still don't understand how they function so I still don't understand how they help.

Ok, I got my first app done! This is great! There is so much more to learn though. Vue.js? Um, javascript? node.js? huh? OOh, Elixir sounds cool, what's that? Wait, you mean to tell me Elixir is obselete before I even know what it is and now it is just Mix? Ok, I'll skip that for now. What's next? Something pronounced like eczema? I'll have to learn that later. Ok, so If I want to have the user click a button and then land on another page, I have to go to the Route file and somehow send them somewhere but I don't know how to do that. Not only are there terms I don't understand, but they are deprecated so I have to try to understand them before moving on.

If your experience was anything like mine, I FEEL SO SORRY FOR YOU!

My observation is that if you have a Mac, use that and go to Laracasts.com and you will be just fine. If you are on Windows or Linux, may God have mercy on your soul if you try to figure out what Laravel is all about.

And for the record, because of Laravel I will never go to Windows again. I am stuck in Linux, learning just as much about how things work on this machine as I am Learning Laravel by watching the laracasts. Someday I may actually get a MacBook to make this process easier.